New - Power Based Indoor Cycle Training

[elsaltamontes]

[QUOTE][Now this goes against what I know would be good for them, but I also know that when you take over a class, sometimes you gotta give them what they want before giving them what they need!(Funhog)QUOTE]

Loving this forum thing which I am very new to! As a Personal Trainer the balance of giving them what they need with what they want is critical for long term business. Great advice for cycle instructors venturing into indoor cycling 2.0, results based training.

I am kicking myself for writing "maximal" but my intention for writing it is the same. This discussion is for instructors only, as marketing any kind of "test" we would like to keep it as un-intimidating as possible.

I am not responding to argumentative, really just looking for a better way to clarify my previous statements. Any kind of test physical or mental would be completed using your "best" or maximal effort to achieve the highest score. 100% of LT for 8, 15,or 20 minutes, will ask you for a "maximal effort" over that duration. Will that effort be as high as a maximal effort for 3 minutes, no. Will it be as high as a maximal effort for 10 seconds, of course not. The longer the duration of the test the lower the relative effort, but to get the most accurate and best score, one must provide maximum effort for that specific duration.

My point to instructors is just to be aware that testing can push some people to there limits, which raises some risk. In fact I would guess some motivated individuals will over pace themselves and blow up before a 15 minute test is over. Subtle non-intimidating pre coaching(do not use maximal!) and time checks throughout the test will help greatly.

Based on the two responses here students appear to love this testing! I am very encouraged to initiate an event and try this out! Funhog BTW el saltamontes(loosley translated as "the mountain jumper" Ventanna MTB) is a man! But that is o.k, cycle chicks rock! Joining ICI soon, great stuff!

[Funhog]

lol! So sorry dude (still don't know your real name)! I saw "Elsa" and assumed the last name was Tamontes but that wouldn't explain that wayward "L" in the middle.

In the short time you've been on this forum, you've provided some great insight and advice - keep it up! And we look forward to having you over at ICI/PRO.

You are so right in your explanation of "maximal" effort for the given duration. Yes, you want to go as hard as you can for that duration - and yes that would be "maximal". I just know that the term can be confusing to both students and instructors. Again (here I go again ) I think it's because of the tenacious grip that the industry has on Maximum Heart Rate.

Just finished recording our audio PROfile for the field test - it's going to be great! I think it is the single most important audio PROfile we have done, and perhaps ever will do, in terms of what it means to you and your students and your ability to guide them to their greatest fitness ever.

We will also be providing a powerpoint on what IS lactate threshold, a description of the different terms for "threshold" (and what they are - terms such as LT, AT, FT, VT, MLSS, OBLA, YMCA, USA, WTF etc etc etc), handouts to give to students to help them understand what you're doing and why, zone calculations, and other supplemental information. Our goal is to answer every instructor's question on threshold based training and make sure they understand what it is and how to use it.

If any of you are not ready to take the plunge to threshold-based zones, not to worry - start now to educate yourself more and more about it, do a few field tests on yourself and your peers, try the new zones out for a few months (training based on the new numbers), and take the time you need to learn. It doesn't have to happen overnight, but it should happen eventually. If you're reading this, you CARE about your education as an instructor, why else would you be here?!

[CycleGuy]

For my LT field tests, I asked participants to ride as hard as they could, knowing that they had to ride for 30 minutes. I let them know that at the end of the 30 minutes, they should feel glad to be finished; feeling like they didn't really want to do anymore riding BUT if they had to ride (or run because some crazy swinging a large chain saw came into the room), they could. I also pointed out that there were no buckets beside the bikes...they were not to be riding to the point of feeling ill.

For the duration of the test, heart rate monitor displays were hidden from the riders (covered them with folded pieces of paper taped to fit over the display like an envelope). They were riding to how they felt. It should feel hard. Like a tough ride. A 30-minute tough ride.

It was interesting to watch the participants. One rider, an ultra-distance runner, road the entire test with such intensity that his face was distorted with what looked like grimaces of pain. He held that for the full 30 minutes. Others looked like they were out just cruising around the streets, not even breaking a sweat. I know why the latter group of participants road the way they did and that's fine for them. As Jennifer pointed out, they have a measure now that is a benchmark for them.

Originally Posted by Funhog

We will also be providing a powerpoint on what IS lactate threshold, a description of the different terms for "threshold" (and what they are - terms such as LT, AT, FT, VT, MLSS, OBLA, YMCA, USA, WTF etc etc etc), handouts to give to students to help them understand what you're doing and why, zone calculations, and other supplemental information. Our goal is to answer every instructor's question on threshold based training and make sure they understand what it is and how to use it.

If any of you are not ready to take the plunge to threshold-based zones, not to worry - start now to educate yourself more and more about it, do a few field tests on yourself and your peers, try the new zones out for a few months (training based on the new numbers), and take the time you need to learn. It doesn't have to happen overnight, but it should happen eventually. If you're reading this, you CARE about your education as an instructor, why else would you be here?!

Jennifer, I am eagerly awaiting this PROfile and the information. It was a push for me personally to conduct a LT test. I have been on the receiving end of LT testing (lab and field) for years. This was the first for me conducting one. I prepped with lots of reading and looking at different protocols. Still, I know there is room for improvement.

Just doing the two tests this week, I learned a lot. The first test - on Tuesday - was done to a full class of twenty. With only 20 bikes in the room, that meant I didn't have a bike to ride. That worked perfectly. There is no way I could have ridden and conducted the test. Thursday's test with 17 participants, I didn't even bother with a bike for myself even though there was one available.

Discussing the results with participants after the test was also a very enlightening experience. A lot of good questions, comments. Stuff that I need to talk about in my classes. Stuff that perhaps I should have mentioned during the test. I even came up with a great analogy which seemed to make sense to a number of people who didn't seem to understand the 'science' (including a family physician):

"Your LT is like your monthly earnings. Your earnings are your earnings. You have to live within those earnings. You can spend 90 or 95% for a long period and build some reserve in case something happens. You can spend 100% for a while as well, but you have no reserve if something happens (car or home repair). You can even spend more than 100% for a short period, but you know that it cannot continue for long and that there will be a price to be paid for living beyond your current earnings.

"A good training program will allow you to increase your monthly earnings. That allows you spend more each month. This is training to raise your LT."

"A good training program can also allow you to make better use of your monthly earnings, allowing you buy more with the same amount of money This is strength or power development."

A lot of light bulbs went on when I came up with this during the discussion.

[Funhog]

Stephen,

this is an awesome analogy - can I post it on ICI?!

I've used a similar budgeting example for a long time in Race Day rides (which essentially are field test efforts though the latter should be a totally flat road), but I like yours better - it's more realistic, something people can really identify with. The only thing I'd stress is that in the case of a field test, on this particular day - you are allowed and encouraged to spend 100% of your monthly income - no more, no less. Other days you can go into a surplus (aerobic work) or deficit (anaerobic intervals), as long as the net result leaves you in the black - if over a few weeks/months you are in the red, that's where excessive fatigue, overtraining and burnout come in.

One of the best points about your analogy is the final sentence: "A good training program can also allow you to make better use of your monthly earnings, allowing you buy more with the same amount of money This is strength or power development." This will show them how incredibly important knowing what your "monthly income" is (i.e. knowing your LT) and doing the right things to increase it, not lower it, and/or increase your buying power. This alone is a huge lightbulb moment for students!

My analogy has a game show aspect to it. At the beginning of class I tell them I am giving them a credit card that has $100,000 that they can spend over the course of this race. If they spend 100% of it, saving just enough for that last "purchase" (effort) at the finish, they get to keep whatever they bought! But if they don't budget wisely and run out of money before the finish they don't get to keep anything they bought. Also, if they arrive at the finish line with money left over (didn't go hard enough) then they don't get to keep what they bought.

At times they may run into deficit mode, but they have to be very careful about that because it could hurt their chances for the finish. If they are too conservative, they also won't do well at the end (they may come in dead last). Hills are expensive (I like to throw a few hills into my Race Day rides), so budget accordingly. All through the race I ask them to reassess their account: can they spend a little more? Or do they have to tie the purse strings a little? (there are lots of fun "budgeting" metaphors you can use).

A field test on a totally flat road and constant sustainable effort would be a little different than my Race Day example, with less swings in "spending" (effort), but they do have to budget wisely and constantly reassess themselves. The goal in a field test is to spend 100%. For everyone, that 100% amount will be different.

[Todd S]

Instructors who teach classes in Washington, DC - You may have to come up with another analogy.

[elsaltamontes]

Just completed a specific indoor training ride for myself. Turns out my credit is bad! Funhog's and Cycleguy's teaching methods for these LT tests are fantastic! Apparently I was a big spender today.

[Funhog]

In these economic times, we could have a field day with these metaphors of bad credit and foreclosures!

[CycleGuy]

Originally Posted by Funhog

Stephen,

this is an awesome analogy - can I post it on ICI?!

Sure. And improve on it. It was all done on the spur of the moment, after trying to explain the science/physiology to a small group outside of the group exercise room after the field test.

[tking]

This is a very interesting discussion. Thanks for everyone’s contributions. The original intent of the Power Based Indoor Cycle Training discussion was to zero in on using power meters and watts to quantify an athlete’s ability and then to track the change over time. Another important component is to offer a progressive training program that leads an athlete from long duration, low intensity (base building, aerobic, endurance) to short duration, high intensity (strength and power) workouts. We are in our second season of Power Based training and I thought it would be fun to share with you the class metrics that we have after the initial power assessment we conducted on January 23rd. Last Saturday, January 30th, we completed a 2.5 hour endurance ride at 70% of threshold watts.

You can view our class metrics by going to www.powerbiketrain.com, clicking on “Schedule” then clicking on “Class Metrics”.

Thanks

[Dura-Ace]

Originally Posted by Todd S

Yes. Power is proportional to the product of the force put to the pedals and the cadence. It has nothing to do with the size of the rider even though I hope John finds the effort easier than Mary does.

And you're right, one would expect your CycleOps bike to indicate wattage more accurately than an M3 as the latter cannot be calibrated in a way that a strain gauge based power meter can.

Would we agree on this?

I believe this is because the weight of the rider would be adding addtional resistance on a outdoor bike creating more friction between the tires and the road. Because no additional fricition is added in the indoor class, it becomes meaningless. However, when the rider comes out of the saddle some of the fricition from weight as well as resitance becomes more of a factor on the pedals and in this position is not really being considered.